May 21, 2009
John Surge:
The format for today's chat is free form questions and answers about any marketing related topic.
John Surge:
Please feel free to ask your questions, share experiences, interact with each other and ask follow up questions.
John Surge:
We hope you get great insight and clarity from today's session. The chat will go approximately 45 minutes.
John Surge:
Who wants to weigh in first?
dustinoldfather:
We have been busy...stutters and starts, but we have worked really hard on Expired listings and pricing to keep the flow...we are interviewing assistants right now...
dustinoldfather:
...so, some blue birds and sunshine...
dustinoldfather:
thanks for asking.
Dennis LeBlanc:
That's good to hear!
dustinoldfather:
!
robrule:
Hi, John! With social media, email farming, and electronic newsletters being on everyone's mind right now, are you seeing less direct mail being sent out? Do you think to some measure it has lost impact? And what advice would you give to Realtors when planning on how much of that component to continue to include in their marketing plan?
romie:
John, Do you know how much difference using the 6x11 postcards vs the 51/2x81/2 ones might make in a direct-mail campaign? Romie
lynnerussell:
My burning question is this: having established my real target clients, is it that necessary to spend advertising dollars on a geographical farm several times a month? my target, i hope, will be reading trade and business journals, and certain parts of the newspaper.
Cher Berg:
I'm looking for a monthy mailing piece, I 've done the Hobbs Herder postcards, its time for a change.
s. Berger:
I'm looking for a monthly newsletter format that allows me to update my potential customers to the CURRENT market conditions
dustinoldfather:
Did anyone see the Realty Times piece from the NAR report? NV FL AZ and CA q1 sales up 25-117%! Albiet at lower prices...but I see this as a beautiful thing...
John Surge:
Rob, great question. Social media, email and internet marketing is definitely the hot topic. The problem is that agents are always looking for the next hot topic. Direct mail has not died yet. It is still an incredibly effective medium and the top agents still see it as an essential part of their marketing mix. And MIX is the key word. The question is are you improving your direct mail with VARIABLE DATA and other technologies like DATA INTELLIGENCE. Remember, too, commercial email has unbelievably low "open" rates so I think the best strategy is a well rounded mix. And, yes, you need to be active with social media but do it right and be careful.
dustinoldfather:
What is a good "tweeting" frequency...and what would you say is a good mix of data and personal?
John Surge:
Romie, we don't have any studies on that question other than to say that more often to stand out you have to do something different. In direct mail, bigger is almost always better. BUT if it's a question of budget and being consistent, I would take consistent direct mail in the smaller format.
John Surge:
Lynne, there are no absolutes and that's the problem with how agents approach marketing. IF your niche or target market can sustain your goals with a resonable and attainable market share, perhaps you don't need a geographic farm.
John Surge:
As a follow up point to Rob, remember that Direct Mail is ALSO an important part of past client/sphere campaign.
John Surge:
S Berger, do you have Hobbs/Herder materials?
lastcall21:
Does anyone have some good ideas on direct for past clients/sphere.
John Surge:
Dustin, yes, the thaw seems to be coming. I don't think lower prices are a bad thing for us.
s. Berger:
yes we did the complete program with the personal brochure and postcards
s. Berger:
we are now looking to move to a monthly newsletter with current conditions
lynnerussell:
I have had good results from my own open houses in my farm. So I am thinking I can spend money distributing my brochures among contacts and thru direct response from ads in the right publications, then make local contact doing other people's open houses in my "farm". Does that make sense, John?
John Surge:
Dustin, who really knows, but the key is not to alienate. Tweeting is a GREAT driver for google position. In general, I would keep tweeting to strangers surrounded around the market OR your niche. Tweeting to a sphere could be more personal.
lastcall21:
Newsletters are great. I am putting one out this week. I also use by brochure and powercards
Cher Berg:
Does anyone have any proven success with advertising in the local paper every week?
dustinoldfather:
Also, where is the best place to post a blog...the plan is to overlap the same message in blog, tweet, and PR...?
John Surge:
Hi Cher, we have articles on this subject. WE HAVE NEVER ADVOCATED only sending PowerKards. You need a mix and you need to mix things up. Contact Bob Ruesch in our office and he can consult with you.
robrule:
What kind of mix do you recommend, looking at a total system of touches, in terms of percentages? I'm sure the answer is different for mets vs. haven't mets, so if you could break down some broad brush numbers for each, that would be helpful.
dustinoldfather:
Not a fan of newsletters...works for some...
lynnerussell:
And as a PS to Cher Berg's question, would those successful weekly newspaper ads be somewhere other than the real estate section?
John Surge:
Last call, have you been to a Hobbs/Herder seminar?
Cher Berg:
Yes
s. Berger:
yes
John Surge:
Dustin, not sure what you mean but my answer would be your website.
lynnerussell:
yes
lastcall21:
yes, i have my brochurs and powercards/letterhead etc
Cher Berg:
Is there a follow up for more detail
lynnerussell:
my material is just now going to print.
lastcall21:
i have used them togreat success with expireds
dustinoldfather:
You are suggesting a blog page on the personal web-site...vs Active Rain, etc?
lastcall21:
i am looking to ehance my efforts with my past clients using direct mail
Cher Berg:
I have been the top agent in my area, the other successful agents use a newsletter- but they all look the same to me, graphs etc, but the clients seem to love it.
dustinoldfather:
or would you double dip...posting on both or multiple sites?
romie says:
lastcall21, what are you using for success with your expireds? Romie
robrule:
I can answer the newspaper question. I live in a major market, and in it newspapers are not effective drivers like the internet. If you must advertise in the paper, pick a section that corresponds to your USP or interests to attract like-minded people - for example, advertise in the food section if you are a foodie, or in the sports section if that is a primary interest for you.
lastcall21:
i use the hh capaingn from the gateway
John Surge:
Rob, I really am cautious to do that because it really varies and it depends on if you have opt-ins to your website. No fewer than two direct mail pieces per month to a geographic farm, 1 piece per month to a social sphere/past clients. You can augment with one email per month and feel free if something vital/important happens to email when necessary. I would keep your FaceBook updated and other realtor free. Use LinkedIn to communicate to realtors.
dustinoldfather:
We use the stock HH Expired letter and our brochure...then scrub the MLS through landvoice for active phone numbers and calls...works great.
John Surge:
Last Call, have you thought about using your House Flier Master as a newsletter format?
lastcall21:
no. broker puts it together and then i put a personal page about me
robrule:
Good advice on the FB...
John Surge:
Lynne, it depends on your goal. If you are trying to attract buyers, then a Special Report offer in the real estate section is fine. If you are building brand awareness and sellers, then outside the real estate section is most likely the right strategy.
s. Berger says to John Surge:
what is the house master flier?
dustinoldfather:
I love the house master fier for notes on a pop-by when someone isn't home...
John Surge:
S Berger, it's a Hobbs/Herder marketing product that complements your brochure and PowerKard and can be used as a feature sheet format and for other marketing communications.
John Surge:
Phew! You guys are keeping me busy. Without doubt, I have missed a few questions. Please feel free to restate. You are coming out guns blaring! How are we doing? Are you getting good info?
s. Berger:
was it in my gateway materials?
John Surge:
S Berger, no it would be a branding tool purchased separately and perhaps in a marketing package purchased.
s. Berger:
can i see a sample?
John Surge:
Last Call, if I am reading you right you want to know what to send to your past clients...well, keep them up to date on you and the market and what you think they need to know about the market. Build rapport and be credible as a resource and be consistent so they don't drift from you.
EVERYONE, this is critical!
lastcall21:
thats what i am leaning towards. things like calendars/recipes just don't seem valuable
John Surge:
S Berger, I suggest getting in touch with our consultant Bob Ruesch.
John Surge:
S Berger, also, there were samples given to you at the seminar. Look in the binder.
romie:
Is anyone using the single letter w brochure to expireds that was mentioned at MegaMarketing?
dustinoldfather):
Yes.
lynnerussell:
Thanks John. What would you say is the minimum frequency for effective newspaper advertising? In the real estate section I will be up against the large brokerages with large weekly budgets. I was thinking that a less frequent ad could attract attention if it were in a different section... my target section.
dustinoldfather:
It works great.
robrule:
John, I'm moving to the team approach and will be looking to tweak my materials once my existing stock is exhausted. Will want to keep some of the core design elements as I am the rainmaker, but want to begin to highkight the advantages of working with a team. However, I don't want to feature members of the team individually, as I would be perpetually updating marketing materials as people are added or leave. What other advice could you give in regards to that venture?
John Surge:
LastCall, if you think about it, what credibility does a calendar or recipe build for your real estate credibility or to build rapport. Really those things are lazy marketing.
dustinoldfather:
...takes about 4-6 weeks of consistency...and then the phone will ring...
lastcall21:
i agree thats why i don't send them
Cher Berg:
I am not understanding why you would advertise for real estate in other sections of the paper?
John Surge:
Lynne, ABSOLUTELY. Look, you're trying to build clients over time with most advertising. If you are looking for low level leads, then you need to do direct response focused on buyers in the newspaper.
dustinoldfather:
in fact...I am working on them right now...
dustinoldfather:
...the landvoice phone number scrub is worth every penny.
robrule:
Romie, I use the single letter with brochure twice a year to my farms and sphere, and it seems to generate some of my biggest responses. I also send Market Update letters - a personal letter with more detail than just "here are homes that have sold in your neighborhood" - more of a holistic view - and it never fails to generate at least one seller per mailing.
robrule:
Cher - evereyone and their dog advertises in the real estate section. Advertise AWAY from your competition - stand out!
John Surge:
Cher, have you been to a Hobbs/Herder semianr? The question is, Why would you advertise in the real estate section? Who looks there, really? The question is what are you trying to accomplish? If it's to attract low level buyer leads and wade through those, that could be a good strategy, but you have to understand your strategy and what you are trying to achieve. We suggest looking outside the real estate section so that you can appeal to people BEFORE they have a real estate need. Again, depends on your strategy.
Cher Berg:
Good Point,
John Surge:
Rob, that's a great point. The personal letter (examples of which you get at Gateway) is one of the most effective sphere/past client tools.
romie says:
robrule, Thanks,
John Surge:
OK, how are we doing? Gettting some good stuff? Did I miss anything? Anything not clear? Any pushbacks?
lynnerussell:
As soon as this is over, I'm getting on the phone to every one of my contacts in my newly-defined (a result of the Hobbs Herder seminar) target group, and asking what they read... paper and online.
robrule:
John, I'm moving to the team approach and will be looking to tweak my materials once my existing stock is exhausted. Will want to keep some of the core design elements as I am the rainmaker, but want to begin to highkight the advantages of working with a team. However, I don't want to feature members of the team individually, as I would be perpetually updating marketing materials as people are added or leave. What other advice could you give in regards to that venture?
dustinoldfather:
ditto robrule...
Cher Berg:
Would do you structure the compensation for the team members
John Surge:
Lynne, that's market research and VERY smart.
Cher Berg:
How do you structure compensation to team members
John Surge:
Rob, I would really caution against "marketing" the team or the team concept. I feel that is more for the Listing Presentation or initial consultation. Once you build the rapport people won't have a problem with the team concept. The question is, What marketing advantage do you think you gain from "promoting" the team concept?
dustinoldfather:
We found our buyers agent a little resentful of not being a part of the marketing...any suggestions?
John Surge:
What I would suggest is getting your teammates some marketing tools they can use that tie to your personal brand. Doesn't have to be a brochure but maybe a marketing card or an "insert" for the brochure.
dustinoldfather:
...do tell...what are you suggesting?
dustinoldfather:
Would you tailor it directly to the agent with our marketing template?
robrule:
Well, I think that it would make things less awkward for my buyer agents as they are handing out materials that highlight me exclusively as opposed to the team concept. In addition, I would wager that the core values of a team might be slightly different that the values of me as an individual.
lynnerussel:
John, you referred to gathering low level leads thru the newpaper. Can you define low level? I think of that as not a good thing.
dustinoldfather:
Not in dispute...just asking how to go about it...
John Surge:
Dustin, we were thinking alike. You have to be careful with their longevity. I would just build the team members some more cost effective marketing tools. We can help you with that. Yes, tailor it a little to the buyers agent OR you could make that person contribute to the marketing budget. Making sense? Ask more on this if it's not clear.
robrule:
This makes sense - but wouldn't you at least change some of the text in the rainmaker's brochure so that the overall presentation flows a little better?
John Surge:
Lynne, leads where they are not calling to talk with you but want info on a property or a special report. These leads take patience and pipelining and discipline. It's not good or bad...it just is. For instance, the highest level lead is a "come list me."
dustinoldfather:
We considered the idea of using our brochure template tailored to the agent with some tie-ins and golden hand cuffs, but we were concerned about diluting our brand a then losing them...
dustinoldfather:
"Come list me,,,at the market price."
John Surge:
Dustin, look and feel is yours, personal bio (abbreviated) and photo and contact info is theirs. OR, you could REPRINT your brochure with their PHOTO and BIO on the flap and have a small amout of pieces just for them to use. Lots of options.
John Surge:
Dustin, we can dream can't we?
robrule:
"come list me...at the market price....paying a commission higher than you normally charge" {laugh_smiley}
dustinoldfather:
Cool. Exactly, what I needed to hear.
lynnerussell:
So as "low level", newspaper ads using direct response sort of skate along until something pops?
Image?
John Surge:
Rob, I don't understand your point above about the text.
dustinoldfather:
Love it Rob...
John Surge:
Lynne, I'm not sure what you mean by skate along. They are just different types of leads. I think they are a valid strategy, you just need a pipelining and follow up process. They just don't jump in the boat as clients.
John Surge:
OK, you have all winded me {tongue_smiley}
dustinoldfather:
{typing_smiley}
John Surge:
We are wrapping up our time together and I hope it was well spent.
lynnerussel:
And so I would use the HH direct resposne procedure I have here in the folder.
romie:
John & everyone, Thanks for a good helpful session.
John Surge:
The chat will be archived early next week on Hobbsherder.com
robrule:
Well, everything in my brochure is about me. And that's great, for me. But if I were a buyer, and I met my buyer's agent, and all of my interactions were with that person - the relationship was generated by that person - I think there would be a disconnect in reading a brochure from someone with whom I am not really interacting with, and then an insert on the person with whom I am conducting my business. Whereas, if I get a brochure on the Rob Rule Team, and now I get an insert featuring my buyer's agent, then it seems to flow, presentation-wise.
John Surge:
Yes, Lynne but for a targeted niche you might want to speak to that target if you get my drift.
lynnerussell:
Thank you for your time, John.
dustinoldfather:
Thank you... {smile_smiley}
John Surge:
Rob, it's hard to keep buyer's agents in the fold so you have to be careful creating materials for them. I think you could easily create a less intricate/involved piece for them separate from yours or teach them how to integrate with you and your brand and their representation of you. Or have them contribute to their marketing. Lots of ways to go.
dustinoldfather:
I second, John.
John Surge:
Thanks, everyone. We will be back at it next month. Every third Thursday at Ten pacific. June 18.
robrule:
I think we're on the same page, but I guess I'm not properly conveying my vision. When it gets closer to time, i'll talk to a design person and see what you can do...
dustinoldfather:
Anyone using TP Market Snapshot?
John Surge:
Happy marketing. Your success is our inspiration. I am signing off.
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